I'm always amazed at how fast people will turn a nice place into a garbage pile or an outdoor bathroom with zero self-reflection, zero guilt. I like how you framed the entire Karen debate because they were the disagreeable ones who at least said something.
I do think they overplayed their hands in 2020 though. Hopefully they can balance themselves.
I think that 2020 was a whole different beast. States empowered the absolute worst kind of snitch behavior, and branded it as virtuous. For Karens, that’s like telling an alcoholic to hit the bars.
That isn’t societally healthy either. Hopefully we can find a happy medium between holding each other accountable in meaningful ways, and just throwing each other under the bus for feel-good points
My tact on the parks situation, specifically with litter, is to reach down and pick it up, in front of a group, and call my children over loud enough for most to hear, “Hey kids, come on over and help clean up, this is why we don’t litter, it just ruins the place.”
As we start collecting handfulls to throw away, normally, a few other people join in.
This is interesting and important. I've observed over the past 10ish years the ethos of "Don't be a narc/that's none of my business" applied everywhere, even situations when someone is doing something genuinely bad, dangerous, or illegal.
We shame the "Karen" who points out the bad behavior. "Karen" devolved from describing a woman who, for no reason, screams at the 20 yr old Olive Garden waitress to anyone who points out something legit bad or wrong.
It should not be normal that we are forced to hide in fear from miscreants while people who genuinely try to maintain a civil society are shamed.
Mentioning Japan is interesting. Anyone who has been there can attest to how ridiculously clean and safe it is. It is difficult to find any litter at all in Tokyo (a dense metro of 40 million people). And while they can be strict with law enforcement, a lot of that is indeed the result of rigorous self policing. Other parts of East Asia are similar. Americans (in contrast) like to lionize the rebel, and that's where the shaming of "Karens" or snitches stems from. There's a complex discussion to be had of the pros and cons of this cultural quirk of ours.
To be fair, my experience with Japan is second hand. A friend of mine moved there and absolutely loves it, and everything I’ve seen anecdotally supports this story I heard from that travel writer… but for all I know, it could be apocryphal.
You’re right about the “rebel” component I suspect. I’ve just never understood how that idea translates to disrespecting one’s surroundings, especially when the country has such a deep history with conservation, national parks, etc. thanks for reading!
This is an interesting take and thank you for writing it. Ultimately, calling someone out for something has to first come from absolutely knowing what the right answer is. Just because there’s an opinion of a right answer, doesn’t mean it’s the right answer. Second, I love Japan—lived there many years. But, I’ll be the first to admit they are not the most adaptable to changing circumstances. Changes are frustratingly slow—that’s a good and bad thing, to be clear. The structure of their society is largely based on community orientations than individual. Let’s just say, it’s a unique take and whether what they do is the “right way,” is open to debate. My belief is this. In any gigantic system, there are components and the system. I interpret this to mean it’s not about the individual nor about the system. The aggregate of both need to be respected at all times. Empathy for the other is as necessary for empathy for self.
Thanks mate, I’m glad you enjoyed it. I’m glad you popped up, I was just thinking about your poems the other day and realizing I’ve fallen behind. Great reminder to catch up!
The one thing that characterizes all developing nations is that they live in absolute self-imposed filth. Their cities are literally garbage dumps. Waterways are clogged with sewage. When we invite massive numbers of these people into our country they don’t get acclimatized to our way of life. Instead our own country gradually begins to resemble the third world cities from whence the new millions came.
I'm always amazed at how fast people will turn a nice place into a garbage pile or an outdoor bathroom with zero self-reflection, zero guilt. I like how you framed the entire Karen debate because they were the disagreeable ones who at least said something.
I do think they overplayed their hands in 2020 though. Hopefully they can balance themselves.
I think that 2020 was a whole different beast. States empowered the absolute worst kind of snitch behavior, and branded it as virtuous. For Karens, that’s like telling an alcoholic to hit the bars.
That isn’t societally healthy either. Hopefully we can find a happy medium between holding each other accountable in meaningful ways, and just throwing each other under the bus for feel-good points
My tact on the parks situation, specifically with litter, is to reach down and pick it up, in front of a group, and call my children over loud enough for most to hear, “Hey kids, come on over and help clean up, this is why we don’t litter, it just ruins the place.”
As we start collecting handfulls to throw away, normally, a few other people join in.
Setting a strong example is the way to go! Sometimes people need to be shown what they should be doing!
This is interesting and important. I've observed over the past 10ish years the ethos of "Don't be a narc/that's none of my business" applied everywhere, even situations when someone is doing something genuinely bad, dangerous, or illegal.
We shame the "Karen" who points out the bad behavior. "Karen" devolved from describing a woman who, for no reason, screams at the 20 yr old Olive Garden waitress to anyone who points out something legit bad or wrong.
It should not be normal that we are forced to hide in fear from miscreants while people who genuinely try to maintain a civil society are shamed.
I meant to reply to the discussion here, but thank you for reading!
Calling out behavior that harms your community absolutely is your business, we definitely need to get out of the detached-from-community mindset
Mentioning Japan is interesting. Anyone who has been there can attest to how ridiculously clean and safe it is. It is difficult to find any litter at all in Tokyo (a dense metro of 40 million people). And while they can be strict with law enforcement, a lot of that is indeed the result of rigorous self policing. Other parts of East Asia are similar. Americans (in contrast) like to lionize the rebel, and that's where the shaming of "Karens" or snitches stems from. There's a complex discussion to be had of the pros and cons of this cultural quirk of ours.
To be fair, my experience with Japan is second hand. A friend of mine moved there and absolutely loves it, and everything I’ve seen anecdotally supports this story I heard from that travel writer… but for all I know, it could be apocryphal.
You’re right about the “rebel” component I suspect. I’ve just never understood how that idea translates to disrespecting one’s surroundings, especially when the country has such a deep history with conservation, national parks, etc. thanks for reading!
This is an interesting take and thank you for writing it. Ultimately, calling someone out for something has to first come from absolutely knowing what the right answer is. Just because there’s an opinion of a right answer, doesn’t mean it’s the right answer. Second, I love Japan—lived there many years. But, I’ll be the first to admit they are not the most adaptable to changing circumstances. Changes are frustratingly slow—that’s a good and bad thing, to be clear. The structure of their society is largely based on community orientations than individual. Let’s just say, it’s a unique take and whether what they do is the “right way,” is open to debate. My belief is this. In any gigantic system, there are components and the system. I interpret this to mean it’s not about the individual nor about the system. The aggregate of both need to be respected at all times. Empathy for the other is as necessary for empathy for self.
Nice! Humor and philosophy. Love it
Thanks mate, I’m glad you enjoyed it. I’m glad you popped up, I was just thinking about your poems the other day and realizing I’ve fallen behind. Great reminder to catch up!
Not missing too much: I checked out of Substack for about a year. Just getting back into it.
Did anyone else notice that right around the same time the world "Karen" became derogatory EVERYTHING turned to shit?
The one thing that characterizes all developing nations is that they live in absolute self-imposed filth. Their cities are literally garbage dumps. Waterways are clogged with sewage. When we invite massive numbers of these people into our country they don’t get acclimatized to our way of life. Instead our own country gradually begins to resemble the third world cities from whence the new millions came.